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Common Roleplaying Mistakes That Players Make – Part 2 of 2

  • Written by Samuel Van Der Wall 15 Comments
    Last Updated:: December 5, 2008

    In Common Roleplaying Mistakes That Players Make – Part 1 of 2, we talked about issues with player versus game master, and player versus player. Now we move on to the next issue, metagaming. Essentially, metagaming is using out-of-character knowledge for an in-character situation. Common examples of metagaming are:

    - One player hears another player say or do something and then acts upon it, when there is no way their character would be aware of that knowledge. One example is when the characters are miles apart with no communications, yet are acting in sync as if they knew exactly what the other was thinking. This is a common mistake that pretty much every player falls prey to at some point.

    - Playing a character beyond their ability level. Your character may be a meathead combat-monkey. He will most likely not know how to build a fusion reactor, even if you the player do.

    - Using knowledge of a game mechanic specifically for advantage. One example might be a ranged character that always stays at the perfect distance to keep himself far away from his enemy, but close enough to not incur in-game penalties. If that character always attempts to fight at exactly fifty yards away from his opponent because it gives him a flawless advantage in combat that is not realistic.

    - Employing a certain attack or defense against an enemy that your character would not know about. One example would be that you know a particular monster is weak against fire because of fighting against that monster in a different campaign another game master ran. If this character does not have knowledge of that, he most likely should not be using it.

    - Reading a published adventure that the game master is running with the intention of using that information to beat the adventure. This is the closest thing on this list that is akin to cheating. Just don’t do it.

    Keep in mind, that metagaming is not necessarily always a bad thing. And also remember that there is, for lack of a better term, reverse-metagaming. Where a character may know something the player does not. In this case, it would be okay to ask the game master what the particular piece of information is. For example, maybe the player doesn’t know what types of monsters reside in an area, but his character has spent his entire life growing up there. In that scenario, it would be okay to ask the game master what monsters are in that area, or explain that his character probably already knows that information.

    The final list of common mistakes that roleplayers make is a catch-all list. These particular mistakes may not fit into one specific category, but are things that players should watch out for.

    - Complaining when something does not favor your character.

    - Acting only during combat, but letting the other players or the game master carry you through the non-combat portions of the game.

    - Becoming a dice thrower and not a roleplayer. This can be especially bad if the game contains a skill check for social skills. Don’t just say, “I lie to the guard. I’m rolling my con skill.” Tell the game master what your character says to try and con the guard, and then roll your skill. He may give you a bonus if your con is a particularly believable one!

    - Not learning the rules after playing the game for a while. Do your best to keep the game moving by trying to learn the rules of the game. No one ever learns all the rules, but at least be familiar with the ones that are specific to your character.

    - Trying to be involved in everything. If the group of characters is split up, don’t be that guy that moves from group to group just to stay in the action.

    - Forgetting that bad rolls are part of the game. Remember, good luck and bad luck are both equally part of roleplaying. Try not to get upset if the dice aren’t rolling your way, it happens. Some games have functions that allow you to mitigate poor rolls, use them.

    - Not paying attention. Don’t make everyone repeat themselves because you’re too busy reading the players handbook, or doing something else.

    - Playing characters that are flawless. No person on earth is flawless. No character in a roleplaying game should be flawless.

    - Treating a roleplaying game as something that can be won. Just like you can’t surf to the end of the internet, you can’t win a roleplaying game.

    As I stated in the beginning, this is not a comprehensive list. There are many more mistakes out there to be made. But these are some of the common ones. Knowledge is power. Use this list as food for thought, and maybe it can help make you a better roleplayer.

    What other common mistakes do players make in roleplaying that we haven’t mentioned yet?

15 Comments
  1. #1 Mike Lee says:
    December 5, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    Good list. I mostly agree.

    - Using knowledge of a game mechanic specifically for advantage.

    That’s exactly what REAL fighting people do. Military know exactly how far guns fire, and under what conditions. They also coordinate location to benefit from support from other units. It’s reasonable to expect an archer to stay close enough to the cleric to be healed, and far enough to snipe enemies.

    - Acting only during combat

    Some players are not face men or even RPers. A lot of these players enjoy watching the RP, but they don’t want to be in the spotlight.

    - Not learning the rules after playing the game for a while.

    There is no helping enernoobs. They obviously like the game to keep showing up, but they just down have a grasp on the mechanics. Mercy.

    - Playing characters that are flawless.

    A flawless character is a broken system problem. A fighter that owns in melee combat is likely flawed in social situations. The player may not care about RP, so he’s happy to kick butt when the init dice roll. That’s his call.

  2. This is a response to Part 1, but I’ll post it here. As a player, please don’t speak about Random Topic XYZ while the GM is trying to either roleplay an NPC or describe an event or history. Chitter chatter during down-time is one thing, but talking about something that can wait whent he GM is trying to give vivid detail surrounding the PCs is different. I’m my group, that’s pretty much the only thing that irks me… I think we have really grown past many of the other roleplaying mistakes.

  3. It’s actually pretty impressive how controversial this topic is. Each player and group seems to have their own set of good and bad things. I received a lot of both positive and negative feedback on these articles. And they were both the second highest viewed article I’ve had so far.

    I guess a lot of playstyle is in the eye of the beholder.

  4. “Becoming a dice thrower and not a roleplayer. This can be especially bad if the game contains a skill check for social skills.”

    As a GM I struggle with this concept even after all these years. We normally don’t penalize a character with skill in Demolitions for not knowing how to disarm a bomb in real life, so why should PCs with buffed social skills feel an undue burden to “roleplay it out” instead of simply rolling the dice?

    A couple of years back I was a player in a fantasy campaign where all of the PCs were the invading forces in a massive war — my character was a master of siegecraft who had been bought by one of the warlords in order to topple the supposedly impregnable strongholds of the region. While I was interested enough in my character to do a great deal of outside reading on ancient and medieval siege warfare, I found myself frustrated by the fact that my GM (a military history junkie) kept pressing me for specifics on how exactly I did X,Y, and Z. Beyond a certain point I assumed that the gaps in my personal knowledge would be filled by the character’s ability, but that was rarely the case in the course of the game and it made playing the character less enjoyable than it should have been.

    This is another reason why I’m not a huge fan of in-game riddles or other such challenges that exploit the tension between what’s in your head on what’s on your character sheet. If the mechanics cover what you want to do, you should never been penalized for simply defaulting to the mechanic. I agree that PCs can and should be rewarded for being clever, but recognizing that everyone at the table isn’t a natural born storyteller is key to a good group dynamic.

    Jubliex Begins With an “I”’s last blog post..The trouble with Tlaloc

  5. “so why should PCs with buffed social skills feel an undue burden to “roleplay it out” instead of simply rolling the dice?”

    As a GM, I am not going to waste my time and energy putting together a game for a player that would rather say “I bluff him, here’s my die roll.” Eff that. That type of player needs to leave the dice and character sheet behind and play a game that is more his style, like World of Warcraft.

    I understand that not everyone is a smooth-talking socialite, but give the GM something… anything to work with. And if it’s a particularly well delivered speach/threat/bluff/whatever, the GM can easily award a bonus to your roll or even make it an automatic success.

  6. Jubliex – Seems like in your example your character would definitely have knowledge that you would not. Weird that your GM would press you on that. I think the difference with social skills is that every person has them on some level (some more than others).

    And it is a roleplaying game. Roleplaying is just assuming the attitudes and actions of another in a make-believe situation, in an effort to understand another point of view or social interaction. Last part is the key, social interaction.

    Chris – Short and sweet, we both agree on that.

  7. Chris: I’m not 100% convinced. I love roleplaying as both a player and a GM, but penalizing another player for not roleplaying enough seems like handing down a Pieces of Flair ™ violation. Engage and reward, yes, but I’ve always sought to balance my gaming table between the drama majors/storytellers and the “Just the Dice, Ma’am” types.

    Samuel: Roleplaying is a significant part of the RPG equation, but I’ve noticed that players tend to want to “roleplay it out” when it’s to their own advantage to do — i.e., it’s a metagaming tactic after all, meant to garner a better die roll or some extra XP. Few PCs make a point of remembering their dump stats when attempting to be more Intelligent, Wise, or Charismatic than the characters on their sheet.

    So I’d say this is a complex topic. Mind you, I’d rather attempt to walk the tightrope than throw up my hands entirely, but striking a proper balance between roleplaying as part of the fun and roleplaying as Something Required By The GM is not always as easy as it looks. Yes, in a perfect world the former and the latter would coincide, but play enough games with enough gamers and you’ll know that the perfect combination is an elusive one.

    Jubilex Begins With an “I”’s last blog post..The trouble with Tlaloc

  8. While I think we’ve all been part of the “RP’ing for a bonus or when convenient” and the “Dice hoarders” groups I think the main issue here is that we don’t go to our groups with the mindset of just tossing dice and getting in fights. You should have a pretty clear idea of what your character knows, has experienced and is capable of dealing with after your third or fourth session with the character, after this point it is up to you to make an effort to stay within those boundaries. I can’t even name how many times we’ve been playing Shadowrun with a character with 1 or 2 int who suddenly had an amazing idea that was out of reach of nearly all of our characters, sadly most times it’s overlooked and used and we move on.

    I would expect every player to want to RP for the reward and the moment, but I wouldn’t punish them for only thinking of the reward. You generally don’t do anything without some sort of external motivation whether it’s money, exp, fame, etc.. It doesn’t make it metagaming just means that’s your characters reason for doing it.

    I think, in the end, it needs to be a conscious effort of the group, the player AND the GM to help each other police themselves and help everyone stay in character at their respective stat levels. If everyone did this consistently then people wouldn’t get so upset when someone corrects them about playing outside of their stats and eventually it would become second nature to do it on their own. I’m sure every group suffers from this problem, though, and I would bet nearly everyone gets upset when someone else points out that their character is too stupid to think of that.

  9. Maybe one way of playing is to just find a game master that fits your playstyle. Personally, I play with my friends, who are friends outside of roleplaying. So we just have to make our playstyles fit. But when I’ve played in other groups that didn’t fit my playstyle, I just left.

  10. I like to look at the “big picture” with each of the players in my game. By that I mean that to me there is more to roleplaying then bringing the character to life in a social situation.

    I personally like to see players add a little descriptive flair every time they roll the dice, whether it’s a social encounter or a combat encounter. However I appreciate the fact that the game has mechanics to cover the differences between characters and players.

    Overall though I feel that good roleplaying manifests in places other than social dialogue. I judge a roleplayer based on a variety of other criteria such as:

    The depth of his character’s backstory.
    The character’s goals, motivations, and attitudes.
    Whether or not I can tell, at the table, anything about the character’s morals, ethics, or alignment.
    The player’s ability to contribute, through his character, to the campaign.

    To me a “good” roleplayer is one who manages to bring his character to life. It’s kindda like being a good actor. There are actors out there who can deliever a great line of dialogue but fail to bring the character to life. To make the character believable in my mind. That is what good roleplaying comes down to for me; when looked at from the big picture do the characters in the campaign come to life and seem to have an existence beyond a mere collection of numbers.

    In short, do I as a DM feel like I “know” the character. His likes and dislikes, hopes and fears, goals and motivations, even his little quirks and flaws as well as his strengths and assets. If I do, that character has been roleplayed well.

    John Lewis’s last blog post..Palladium Sucks! Or Does It? Yeah, It Does…

  11. “To me a “good” roleplayer is one who manages to bring his character to life.”

    That phrase kind of struck a chord with me, regarding this thread. I totally agree with that statement. Through the hundreds of characters my friends and I have created, there are a lot that kind of fade into nothing. Then there are those that everyone in your gaming group remembers. There are also scenarios and events that you and your gaming group really remembers. That, to me, is what gaming is all about. Having fun, and those cool memories of what happened in your game.

  12. On this issue of social skills, etc; there has to be some leeway on both sides of the argument. I personally love to make the GM work in those types of situations, giving them a short to the point idea of what my character is trying to do. I can’t understand why other gamers can’t do this, as in essence they are that character. It takes nothing to say to a GM “I am going to try and convince the Guard that I am some kind official/royalty/somebody, so he will let me in the gate”, GM then decides I need a certain number to convince him before I roll; takes all of 2 minutes.

    I enjoy this type of RP’ing, as it makes the game a little more believable. It is also a great source of hilarity, when you have the most undiplomatic player(me); making Diplomacy checks to get past guards, etc.

  13. I agree Azhdeen. I don’t need a player to give me Oscar worthy dialogue, just tell me the skill you want to use and in general how you want to employ it. Although I certainly never object to a little flourish!

    As DM I usually like to go the “actor’s route” but I have several years of theater experience and I have a better idea of what is happening then the players who are just now entering a situation do.

    John Lewis’s last blog post..Campaign Primer: The Rebellion

  14. People usually joke or talk badly about ‘roleplayers’ versus ‘roll-players’, but I think it is a legitimate argument. Are you there to tell a story, or are you there to roll the dice? I’m there to do both. So I want to tell you what I’m going to do, then I’m going to roll the dice and pray to god I get a good result.

  15. These conflicts seem to come up especially when the rules or other assumptions don’t match the goal — and agreement on the goal is the first necessity. Someone else may have a goal (play-acting?) that’s satisfied in getting his character killed by pretending not to know the vulnerabilities or invulnerabilities of monster x, but I don’t. I want REAL mystery and suspense, the chance to get my character killed while doing all I can to keep him alive! My preference with social-interaction situations is the same as with combat situations: a baseline probability, modified by circumstances (which includes players’ descriptions of their actions) … in short, the original D&D approach. If you’re going to make one or the other rules-heavier or more abstract (or both and both, in the case of 4E), then be sure the selection pressure is toward the kind of play you want. If you want to “tell a story” as an author, that’s quite a different enterprise from taking on the role of a character who believes himself to be experiencing a real life in a real world complete with multiple free wills and laws of nature. Trying to do one with rules designed for the other tends to lead to cheating, which violates the fundamental precept of playing a game.

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