I don’t follow along with this rant against Palladium at all. The problems the author addresses don’t seem to be problems at all. Let’s look at at them:

1. Imbalance in character creation: Really? There’s an imbalance? How so? Because there are OCC/RCC’s that are more physically powerful than others? That doesn’t sound like an imbalance..it sounds like how the way things really work. Cosmo Knights are insanely but have very few skills…Rogue Scientists are vice versa. The idea is to give a variety and flavor to players. You know, it’s not always fun to play some dominating powerhouse as that does not allow for much actual role-playing. In addition, the example of a Headhunter facing a Glitter Boy is ill made…anyone playing an HH stupid enough to charge into a GB deserves his death and any GM would introduce GB’s against HH’s other than as a plot device or as something to escape from simply doesn’t know how to plan out a campaign.

2. Unorganized, Badly Edited, Unclear Rules….like what? I’m not saying they DON’T exist, but can you cite some specific examples? You know, Palladium at times intentionally create a hard and fast rule for something…they purposely leave it up to the GM so that he can add his own spin on the Rifts world.

3. Poor Compatibility between SDC and MDC…what poor compatibility are you talking about? It was made clear early on in Rifts that MDC materials are of a far superior grade than SDC materials, but both have to exist in the Palladium Megaverse out of necessity; for example, cities, companies and settlements aren’t going to wast valuable MDC materials on clothes. I don’t see any conflict between the two. Again, the example presented is a poor one…a normal person versus a tank? Of course the person is going to go splat. Heck, in the REAL world that would happen. The author seems to be upset that a person, in the Palladium system, can’t do damage to a tank with their bare hands.

4. Recycled Artwork…yes, I always hope for new artwork as well, but recycled artwork, whether we like it or not, is a cost cutting measure and Palladium is a business. Of course, this frustrates me as well and I hope Palladium, in the future, uses this tactic as little as possible.

5. Need a new version….why? I personally don’t see the need for a major rehaul and repackaging of the entire Palladium System. I don’t see it as being all that difficult to figure out as is. Besides, such a thing is sure to drive up costs and none of us want that.

I really don’t see these reasons as being anything more than personal gripes; of course, everyone is entitled to those, but I don’t see much here in the way of objective criticism. I certainly don’t agree that there are “thousands of reasons” why the Palladium game system is unplayable.

Hey guys, I thought I would weigh in on this argument because I think I have a unique opinion you might see as insightful.
I used to be a Palladium FANATIC as a teen, I was absolutely NUTS about the game and even though I tried other games I found myself to be very much uninterested in most of them. Fast forward years later and Rifts/Robotech left an indelible burn mark on my brain from the mental energy I invested. But as I have evolved as a person, I finally come to realize why I loved Palladium so much as a younger guy. It was because I am a very surrealist thinker; I am a physics buff and although I have no formal post secondary education I have self taught a few things and follow the literature (particularly cosmology and standard theory), I also have an artistic side and was a pretty good artist until I turned my energy to writing. Also I can be awfully philosophical at times. In all I’m a pretty strange guy! And maybe because I have such a surreal way of thinking Palladium appealed to me. Other RPG systems provide hard structure almost like your playing a board game, there are no outside variables and the conclusions feel pre-determined. A lot of gamers seem to have to build house rules in order to make the game playable, I understand that.Well as soon as I picked up RIFTS i was modifying and dissolving the rules. I actually kind of hate Tolkien style fantasy, and this pushed me to adopt different ways of playing the game as well as completely overhauling the setting. My friends were often amazed at how much creative energy I could put into a RIFTS campaign, and often it hardly even resembled RIFTS anymore.
I know it has a lot of failings, I had Kevin Siembieda pegged as a narcissist a long time ago. And the game rules do suck, but I think the hardcore Palladium fans are the type of people who’s minds flourish when the boundaries are bit smeared. Of course those who like structure will tend to disagree and feel unimpressed with RIFTS – which is what I think is the whole impetus for this debate in the first place. I think everyone needs to see what they are getting out of gaming and realize that no subjective entertainment experience is the same for everyone.

I started out back in Star Frontiers. As a system, it was simple (a good beginner’s game), but not flexible. As a setting, it was interesting and detailed, but again, not flexible. Over the years, I tried other TSR products – D&D, AD&D, Gamma World, a few others. I tried Steve Jackson’s products – mainly, Car Wars.

For the longest time, we ran a game that was based on the Star Frontiers setting, but used no rules whatsoever. We simply used player/referee interaction, common sense, and a set of d100.

Then I tried Hero System, and enjoyed it – for a time. But that was a system that was SERIOUSLY broken. Too many rules, too little setting, and too much opportunity for min/max and rules lawyering. We weren’t role-playing; we were waiting while our resident rules expert tweaked his attacks and actions each turn. Dull.

Evenually, since I was looking for a good superhero game, I tried Marvel – and hated every single aspect about it. So I wound up trying Heroes Unlimited – and fell in love. Eventually, I wound up with other games from Palladium, and again, fell in love. Every aspect was superior to the other games I had played (except organization – that’s my only real gripe with Palladium). I could create anything I needed as a GM, and the rules weren’t so clunky that they got in the way of good game play.

Of course, I still tried new games. I enjoy the older versions of Vampire: The Masquerade and other White Wolf games from earlier on. But for the most part, I just keep coming back to Palladium’s system.

Now, is it for everyone? Absolutely not. Some players and GMs need and require rigid and well-organized rules to cover every possible contingency. Others absolutely must have balanced systems where every level 5 character is an even match for every other level 5 character. I, on the other hand, tend to run a game where, as much as humanly possible, the rules are invisible. Half the time, my players don’t even know for sure what they’re rolling for; they don’t know if their rolls are good or bad, or if they need to roll high or low. That’s not the player’s job, after all; that’s MY job. All they need to do is supply the rolls as I ask them, and stand back to find out what’s going on (and prepare to make their choices).

Nor do I like a game where the GM railroads the players. Rigid campaigns and inflexible scenarios are fine for computer games and Choose-Your-Own-Adventure books; but role-playing should be open-ended, realistic, and entertaining. If the players suddenly decide to abandon the quest given them by the governor of New Detroit to pursue a side-quest sparked by a character’s memory of an old flame, they should be allowed to. And Palladium allows me to work this type of game play without effort.

For me, where story, realism, and entertainment rule, Palladium’s system gives me a loose framework to operate from, that doesn’t restrict players or characters too much, and that lets me create a really good gaming experience for everyone. Other games could be used similarly; I’ve yet to try GURPS (Though after Hero System, I’m leery of point-based games) or any of the diceless games; but once I found a system that works well enough, with as much amazing source material (all optional, by the way) as Palladium offers, with so much cross-genre interaction possible, I just have never found a need to use anything else.

All that being said, I do have my own gripes:

1) Yes, a core rulebook would be a dream. I think it’s awful that you have rules for perception only in one book (Nightbane), that the attribute bonus table varies from game to game, and that you actually need a conversion book if you want to cross anything to or from Rifts. Oh, and since we’re working on a core rulebook, let’s try, I don’t know, ORGANIZING the rules in some findable system.

2) The more world/dimension books they make for a game, the more things get accelerated (bigger/badder/better/more). If they’re going to create all this new source material – which, in and of itself, is fine – quit trying to out-power everything from the last twenty books!

3) I agree with everyone who has said they need to go through and re-evaluate costs (monetary, ISP and PPE costs, etc), to make them more consistent and reasonable. This is one area I try to bypass the most, and hope the players don’t look into it too hard, because it’s one area in which the games really are messed up.

4) Did I mention better organization? I still can’t find rules for leaping distance! I know I saw them somewhere…

But the fact is, every game has issues. AD&D wizards sucked at low levels. Star Frontiers forced you to be a cookie-cutter version of everyone else of your class. Vampire was almost entirely geared toward the social/political manipulator, rather than any other type of player. Champions let you create anything, as long as you didn’t mind the fact that every piece of equipment you had came out of your character points… or that figuring out who took action on what turn phase required a chart… or that it was possible for a player to figure out how to use the rules to perform six attacks in a single action (which was good, since doing so took an hour)… Palladium’s few flaws are vastly outweight by its flexibility, fascinating settings, and simple learning curve. But that’s my two cents.

I absolutely LOVE the Fluff from Rifts. My favorite by far. I will not use the mechanics as I think they are ridiculous. I like GURPS for my mechanics and I just use RIFTS for the setting.

Perfect example of the FAIL that SDC to MDC is.

Vibro knife does 1d6 MDC to an Impressive 500 SDC mansion, rolls a 6…The mansion collapses…

What?

Wow. Lots of comments since I last posted. I don’t even know where to begin. Vibro knife vs mansion…gotta use common sense in a situation like that. As the GM, YOU tell the player what happens when he uses the vibro knife on the mansion. As the GM you have to use common sense. If you try to parry a weapon with your arm, Character may parry, but should take damage. I try to think of what makes the most sense, and do that. Palladium, Rifts, D&D, all offer great stories and settings. I see some folks that like the Rifts setting, but not the rules. Change it! Just change it! We are playing pretend. Do whatever you need to do to have fun.

Spells. Some spells seem useless. Yes impervious is better than resist. Maybe the wizard is taught resist, or it’s in an item, etc. Given the choice…obviously impervious will be chosen. Some spells don’t seem like they would be picked over others. Take Cleanse. Not the best spell. However, when someone in the party has a phobia of sticky & slimy things…it becomes a great spell. Rustle leaves…not great…but maybe if a character is sneaking up on someone, they can use that. There are a lot of spells that don’t seem great, but the guy that plays the wizard in my group is very creative and surprises me often. I never knew there were so many uses for carpet of adhesion.

I take so much from other systems, I really don’t see much point in getting upset about rules. If I say that something happens, and a player grabs the rules and tells me that it doesn’t happen…do I really want that person in the group? I have not had any fights about rules in a long time. Sometimes a situation presents itself that never has before. We’ll come up with a fair rule as a group, and that is it.

The most important thing is that this is a game. Don’t get hung up on the rules. I agree with Zaayr. You should have rules that are barely visible without railroading players. You need some sort of structure for combat, but aside from that, one can wing it. Right now the characters in my group are pretty powerful. A lot of that comes from their items (easier to kill a dragon with a dragonlance). They have been in a situation the last few sessions where they started with no equipment and have to use whatever they can find. The wizard’s spells are acting funny (He’ll try to drop a wall of stone on something…but creates bread and milk over the bad guy’s head). What this allows me to do is take them out of their element. They have to use more strategy as opposed to brute force. Also, I can pit them against an enemy that would be easy with all of their equipment, but without stuff, they might have to avoid confrontation…GM has to have fun too.

while I agree that the rules can get a little clunky, so too do the rules for any d20 system, and even the most svelt system around is going to have nay-sayers.
when playing RPG’s, not everyone likes to stick hardcore to the rules.

the whole point of any rules-system is to be used as guidelines for conflict resolution… much like that of real life. I personally like to move past adhering strictly to the rules… afterall playing a game is a form of escapist entertainment, to disregard reality for your own fantasy.

the thing that seems to be the most appreciative and most loved about Palladium is their detailed and ONCE HIGHLY-UNIQUE settings… (not so much now as many newer games have been inspired by Palladium… and even then, Palladium was inspired to create their worlds from other sources.)

if the Palladium system were to be revised/updated or completely overhauled, how could the rules honestly be any different than any other system that exists now. Essentially, every game out there uses rules that overlap and play similarly to any other system. You roll a die or utilize a score verses an opposing number to determine your success or failure… sometimes with one die, sometimes with a dice pool, sometimes only using cards or even a hand gesture.

I have been a PnP/RPG gamer for more than a decade, and all the games that I have played or studied have lead me to the conclusion that so called innovation has nothing really to do with the rules… but with the development and utilization of the settings and the ability to draw gamers into a world that only exists in the minds of those said gamers… IMAGINATION.

…but that’s just my rant.

Rifts is a powergamer’s delight. The only thing I dislike about the palliduim system is character creation and leveling up, both can be very time consuming. I like the armor rating system from fantasy where you roll the armor rating or higher the person takes damage, if not the armor takes the damage it makes very realistic. The gameis not perfect, but what game is.

I love rifts Ive been playing for years. we did mod the game a small bit. As for a squishy takeing on a tank, i have a layline walker that can take on a tank assuming i am cunning and dont try to take it head on. the game requires you to think outside the box.

I have been running Palladium with modified rules for some time now. I recently started playing 4e D&D, Living Forgotten Realms. It is fun for me because I haven’t actually played in a while as I am always running. While D&D seems to have most bases covered, I think all the strict rules take away from some of the fun of role playing. My players have played D&D with me and have told me that they like my campaign better…which is a nice morale boost!

I still have fun, but there is more time than I’d like spent looking up rules, the DM checking something, etc. Sometimes players ask me if they can do something, and I’ll think for a sec, then make the call. Flipping through books for a few minutes takes away from the experience. Plus, if you’re too strict, then funny things like the “Bird-Whale” combo would never come into play! (Bird-Whale: Metamorph into bird. Fly above enemy. Annnnd…turn into a whale)